14
May
06

You Go, Lou Dobbs!

Recently Lou Dobbs attacked President Bush and his cabal on their immigration policy. The spark may have been the idea that placing National Guard troops at the boarders would do ANYTHING to really stem the flow of the nearly 3 million illegal immigrants that cross them each year if our policies continue to favor them. I think it’s quite clear that the best way to stop them from coming is to HEAVILY fine, and possibly close down businesses that hire them. In 2004, only 3 employers who hired illegal immigrants were fined. I could find three businesses employing illegal immigrants just by walking down the street. And when the illegal immigrants are found, they MUST be deported. Being sent back to your own country makes it harder for you to get back in, especially if we ACTUALLY fund and increase the Boarder Patrol, and deters you from uprooting your family once again.

I am torn by the plight of the illegal immigrant, even though all of the immigrants I know are 100% legal. It was very difficult and very expensive for any of them to obtain Visas. In some cases, it took as long as 10 years and as much as $12,000. In many countries, the application fee alone is phenomenally high for the income of the middle class worker, and once they do get here and get jobs, the majority of their income goes towards lawyer fees, more application fees, etc., making it extremely difficult for them to rise out of poverty. The system is against them, like it is against all of them, but they should not be protesting that they should be given amnesty. If they want to be taken seriously, the need to protest against the policies and the fees that make it SO DIFFICULT for them to become legitimate, legal citizens. As illegals, they technically don’t have the right to protest anyway, so if they’re going to do it, they should make sure it’s for something that won’t alienate the very country they’re trying to become citizens of.

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14 Responses to “You Go, Lou Dobbs!”


  1. 1 daveawayfromhome
    May 15, 2006 at 1:26 pm

    The problem with fining people who hire illegals is that they can claim to have “not known” that those they hired were illegal. And they’ll have some paperwork to prove this, because paperwork is easy.
    If you really want to stop the hiring of illegal immigrants, then make sure that anyone suspected of using illegals is audited.
    Odds are, if they are hiring illegals, they’re playing other tax shenanigans, also. Plus, once word gets out that the fast road to the IRS is via your local illegal, I suspect you’ll see the use of them dry up real fast.

  2. 2 United We Lay
    May 15, 2006 at 1:35 pm

    Ignorance is never an excuse within the law, why is it here? I do like the auditing suggestion, though. That’s a great idea.

  3. 3 Ed Abbey
    May 15, 2006 at 1:53 pm

    UWL – I agree that we need to step the search for employers that hire illegal border crossers. (I refuse to use the term illegal immigrant.) Unfortunately like Dave said, it is to easy to avoid the searchers. My parents personally know someone who hires suspected illegal border crossers. They can not legally check their background deeper to prove their “status” without infringing upon the laws laid down by our government to prevent discrimination and open themselves up for a lawsuit if they were wrong.

    I don’t like what Bush has proposed so far to deal with this problem but if he does suggest sending troops down to our borders, I’m all for that. I would much rather see our National Guard defending our borders than fighting some oil war in the sands of the Middle East. I don’t think it is the “end all” solution but it is finally a step in the right direction.

  4. 4 exMI
    May 15, 2006 at 4:53 pm

    I agree UWL. Go after the companies that hire illegals. That will stop the flow.
    Being activated by the Guard and sent to Iraq and Afghanistan was unplesent. Being activated and taken from my home, buisness, job, family and then being sent to TEXAS would really tick me off.

  5. 5 daveawayfromhome
    May 15, 2006 at 6:12 pm

    You can all the border patrolling you want, but they’ll still slip through. You can issue everybody official American papers that you’ll have to show to jack-booted official who asks you, but they’ll still be here. You can threaten jail, torture, and beatings, but all that will do is make the illegals more wary, and us look like communist-era Russians.

    If you pay them, they will come.

    Stop the pay, stop the illegals, it’s that simple…

    sort of.

  6. 6 Ed Abbey
    May 15, 2006 at 6:35 pm

    I try to look at it from a cost economics standpoint. How many billions of dollars would we need to spend to find and prosecute those that make up less than 5% of our total workforce and those that hire them which range from the entertainment industry to the local surburbanite hiring someone to take care of their lawn or child?

    How much would it cost to build a fence that is manned by technology and a small force of interceptors?

    I don’t know the answer to this but based on how large our government is getting and how much is spends, I’m guessing the latter.

    Secondly, one of the largest segments of illigal border crossers these days are the children of those already here. They don’t work, they don’t collect money, so how do we stop them?

    Having spent lots of time in a third world country, many of them look to the United States as the land of milk and honey. They see that we all drive fancy vehicles, own large houses and assume that once they get here, they will too. None of them have told me that they want to get into the United States to be a meatpacker or pick fruits and vegetables. They don’t think about money in the same terms as we do. Even if we were to stop employers from hiring them, I think they would still come on the ficticious dreams and become tax burdens when they couldn’t find a job. Either way we pay for them unless we prevent them from getting here in the first place.

  7. 7 daveawayfromhome
    May 15, 2006 at 7:27 pm

    Ha, ha! read this. (yes, it’s related)

  8. 8 Ed Abbey
    May 15, 2006 at 7:43 pm

    Excellent! I wish more people would do things like this.

  9. 9 daveawayfromhome
    May 15, 2006 at 7:44 pm

    You cannot stop the flow of illegal aliens, unless you take steps so drastic that citizens will want to flee the country, too. The best that you can hope to do is slow them down.

    As for the children, there will be no children brought over, or born here, if their parents dont come here first and bring (or send for, or be followed by) them. And whatever the dream may be, immigrants are at least as practical, if not moreso, than citizens are. They wont come here if there is no job to be had, because they know there’s no point.

    For most immigrants, illegal or otherwise, the trick is getting in. Once in, they are pretty much homefree. Do you really think a wall will provide a deterent to that kind of thinking?

  10. 10 Ed Abbey
    May 15, 2006 at 8:27 pm

    For me, a good analogy to this whole situation can be found in Israel and the Palestinians. Going after the people who made the bombs that killed the citizens made no difference in preventing the buses and cafes from being attacked. Only after they built a fence and diligently patrolled it, did they halt the violence.

    Building a fence on our border with Mexico isn’t to send a signal, it is to prevent them from entering. It is a definable task and can work as Israel has proven. Going after those that hire them, while noble and necessary, isn’t so easily definable and in my opinion, largely unenforcable. We may get some employers here and there but we can never get them all and it would be a job without end.

    I don’t believe there is a trick to getting in. According to INS own numbers, they estimate they only apprehend a small fraction now. And if you cross the U.S. Mexico border and are from a different nationality than Mexico, your chances of getting in increase to 100% due to our deportation laws and a very large loophole in our system.

  11. 11 United We Lay
    May 15, 2006 at 10:04 pm

    Dave,
    I don’t think that prosecuting companies tha hire illegals and deporting the illegals found there would make American citizens want to leave. Increasing the funding and manpower of boarder patrol is nothign most people would complain about. Those would be incredible places to start, but I can’t imagine that’s going to happen anytime soon. I also don’t think most people would object to the Visa process beign glanced at and amended where it’s needed.

  12. 12 daveawayfromhome
    May 16, 2006 at 4:08 am

    No, I didnt think that prosecuting businesses that hired illegals would make Americans want to leave either. I was thinking more of National ID papers, check-points and the kind of jack-boot-think that would go along with all that stuff.

    One question you need to ask yourself is this: Will draconian measures be worth the cost to the ideals of this country. I dont know in the terms of a wall, but I think that will probably be OK. I just think that we can skip the wall and it’s attended costs, and gain the same effect by making sure that people who hire illegals (a practice that is itself illegal) feel the heat of law enforcement, and we might just have a good effect on tax revenues to boot (something people miss when they bitch about illegals not paying taxes, is that those who hire them dont either).

  13. 13 Ed Abbey
    May 16, 2006 at 12:53 pm

    I used to think national ID’s were the way to go but after the recent revalation of the huge phone record database put together by the NSA, I’m having second thoughts.

    I’m glad this immigration issue has been brought to the forefront. It has been ignored for way to long and maybe this time something will get done. I wouldn’t bet on it but I can at least hope.

  14. 14 United We Lay
    May 16, 2006 at 1:47 pm

    Like Ed, I actually agreed with the National ID Cards until the whole phone database thing, which I’ll probably post on soon. Now, I have no idea how to streamline the cards. Having the ID is one thing, how it’s used is entirely different, and somethign that should be looked at VERY carfully.


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I am not perfect. I do my best to practice what I preach, but I am human. My mantra is, "DO NO HARM". I may not always succeed, but I will always try. My goal is to be a better person today than I was yesterday.

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